Friday, August 25, 2006

A Message in a Blog

Is it a War on Terror or Islam?

The Western World is facing an incredible challenge… To define its relationship with Islam while we are absorbed in a rash of wars that increasingly looks like World War III.

This whole debate really started when President Bush was criticized for making the statement that we are waging a “War on Terror”. If taken literally it is true that you can’t actually wage war on “terror”. However, the idea of what is meant is clearly delivered in the message. How much effort should we put into an argument over semantics? First, let’s take a look at the other side of the coin…

Leftists have a rigid dogma of anti-Americanism.

  • Western civilization is the root of all the world’s problems.
  • Racism or the greed for oil can explain all of the policies of the United States.
  • Globalization is a continuation of imperialism.

Quite often their perspectives concerning the root causes of current events are wildly inaccurate. This is because they oversimplify complex events to help distribute their propaganda more easily. It is easy for pro-American activists to become jealous of the appeal behind such an approach and act upon the desire to duplicate it for their own cause.

Let’s face it though, Americans don’t really need silly slogans like “No Blood for Islam”. And even more importantly, do we really want to legitimize Islamic terrorists? Since the US is currently at war with Al Qaeda and the Taliban, we would be recognizing them as the representatives of their religion if we were to “Declare Islam to be the Enemy”.

I don’t want to appear to be skirting around the issue that most modern day terrorism is done in the name of Islam. From the twin towers in New York -to- the London transportation system -to- the Madrid commuter train system -to- the Nigerian states suffering under Sharia Law -to- the tourist spots of Egypt -to- the cities of Israel -to- the Shiite mosques of Iraq -to- the schools of Russia -to- the churches of Pakistan -to- the small towns of Kashmir -to- the southern provinces of Thailand -to- the Christian and Buddhist islands of Indonesia -to- the tropical cities of the Philippines… there is a serious problem.

Both Islamic and Western societies have failed to make a concerted effort to permanently address this issue. ISLAM MUST REFORM.

One Reformation Down, One to Go

Christianity went through a difficult redemption in the hundreds of years after the Reformation. This included the ending of indulgences and other financial abuses, the dissemination of scripture in common language and the ending of the public humiliation of penance. Also, the political power of clerics who claimed to speak on God’s behalf was successfully challenged and the separation of Church and State became standard in civil legislation. Eventually this ended the political persecution that was conducted by some church authorities and destroyed the exclusive favoritism that the state gave to Christianity.

Religious reform progressed so far that Catholic clerics led the peaceful resistance to the military junta of El Salvador. In Latin America the church was historically associated with the oppression of the poor. Modern activism actually reversed the process so that they became the champions of the poor. Most importantly, Pope John Paul II vehemently opposed the US invasion of Iraq. This is worth noting because the medieval Church had endorsed religious wars against Islam and was now protecting an Islamic country against a Christian one.

Despite any faults the religion may have had, it has undergone lengthy reforms. As recently as the mid-20th century the Christian faith dominated almost all facets of life in the Western world. Since then our society has become extremely secular and yet Christianity has peacefully adapted.

Civilized people must demand that Islam undergo similar reforms so that it can peacefully coexist with secular society.

  • Discrimination in Muslim lands against other religions has to be addressed.
  • Sharia Law needs to be exposed for its barbarity.
  • The role that religious clerics and charities serve to promote terrorism has to be more aggressively suppressed.
  • A challenge must be raised against the xenophobic propaganda machine that corrupts the Muslim media, governments, education system and religious institutions.

There is much that needs to be changed and militant Islam will oppose each step.

Propaganda War

Fortunately, Islamic terrorists lack the strength to defeat the US on the field of battle. Because of their weakness they have been forced to form independent cells with no central command centers. This means that neither side is able to land a decisive blow militarily. To compensate for their deficiencies, the true strength of militant Islam has become political.

As a result we are now embroiled in a propaganda war. That leads me to ask, what political gain will we achieve by declaring war on Islam? We can’t shoot missiles at religious faith.

Osama bin Laden has maintained the position that the US is at war with Islam, not just Al Qaeda and its allies. There are almost 1.5 billion Muslims in the world and this thug is trying to foist himself as the voice for all of them. His strategy is to create instability in the Muslim world and then blame it on the US. That allows him to hold himself out to be defender of Islam when he is actually the cause of their suffering. These emotional appeals also strike a sympathetic chord in the Western World. There are some sincere Liberals that feel the US victimizes Muslims collectively for the problems of a few. Islamists and militant Leftists manipulate that fear with misleading propaganda.

To win this political struggle we must maintain the support of the majority. That means our message has to appeal to as many people as possible, including moderate Muslims and Liberal Democrats. I’m not implying that our country should be held hostage to the inherent anti-Americanism of those groups. Our message just has to be moderate enough to win a sufficient amount of support to enable us to hold on to the majority. We have the advantage because the Extreme-Left is stuck in a stance of combative fanaticism that makes their movement only attractive to a minority of Americans.

A Doomed Alliance

Under the control of such extremists, militant Socialists have steered themselves into an alliance of convenience with Islamists. Together they wage a campaign of misinformation on many fronts - from the media to street protests. Over the years they have developed an effective methodology for using Democracy against itself.

Since they both have totalitarian philosophies, a conflict between the two will invariably arise. Iranian Leftists found that out after that country’s revolution in 1979. It was an alliance of Liberals, Communists and Islamists that toppled the Shah’s military dictatorship. Unfortunately, the Islamists led by Ayatollah Khomeini weren’t interested in sharing power so they seized control of the country and murdered their opponents. The Left’s alliance with Islamists didn’t last very long. It took the Islamists only a couple of months to complete the betrayal of their allies.

In 1939 the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany signed the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. This non-aggression treaty had a secret protocol that split Eastern Europe between the two countries. The Soviet Union then joined the Nazi invasion of Poland to help start World War II. A little more than two years later the United States was shipping massive amounts of Lend-Lease equipment to help sustain the Soviets against a Nazi invasion. The Soviet alliance with Nazi Germany marks a serious lack of foresight on the part of the Russians. They were blinded by the benefits of some quick political gains. The same can be said about Socialists in either in 1939 or 2006.

Conclusion

Terrorism takes away the hopes of Christians and Muslims alike. It aims to equally demoralize its victims as well as those it claims to be defending. When either party becomes overcome by despair, terrorism wins. Activists organizing against terrorism must give back hope to those who are afflicted by terrorism.

Our message must NOT be that we are waging war on Islam. It must be that Islam needs to reform. That is a reasonable request in unreasonable times.

103 comments:

The Merry Widow said...

Fern- When you have an ideology based on the lowest human denominators, you cannot reform it! Like naziism, mohammahdism must be eliminated! Sorry, but when something is that resistant to "upgrades" it is obsolete. In our world there can be no place for such barbarism. mohammahdism caters to the basest instincts and the least lovely behavior!
Good morning, G*D bless and Maranatha!

tmw

Freedomnow said...

Good Morning TMW,

As the 2nd largest religion with 1.5 billion people and as the fastest growing of the larger religions I cant see how it would be possible to eliminate Islam.

I would also like to eliminate Communism, but thats not very likely in our lifetimes.

We have to set realistic goals.

The strength of terrorism is that it causes suffering and then benefits from the results. Instead of playing into their hands we should tackle the issue straight ahead, but intelligently.

If we campaigned to eliminate Islam then Al Qaeda will be able to say, “see we were right” and they will be able to grease the wheels of their propaganda machine, which is their only strength. We can beat Al Qaeda every which way except for the field of propaganda. Our civilization needs to find a way to compete with them in this regard, not abandon the field.

The Merry Widow said...

Well, we can heed Churchill's advice, ...the musselman is either at your feet or at your throat...We need to slam them down so hard that they will be afraid to irritate us for one or two centuries, then we educate the young and monitor their education systems. As for mohammahdins, actually Christianity is growing at a faster rate, islam loses about 100,000 a day to Christianity!

tmw

kuhnkat said...

FreedomNow,

we need to start enforcing the Smith act based on the Quran advocating the VIOLENT overthrow of the US gubmint.

http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9068308

http://www.princeton.edu/aci/cases-pdf/aci1.scales.pdf#search='law%20violent%20overthrow%20of%20the%20government'

It would be instructive for experts to review the Quran, based on commonly accepted interpretations in the Muslim community, specifically the Wahabbist and Sufi sects, and show how it is not compliant with our LAWS!!!

From that point we could both start investigations of the Imams and Mosques to root out the actual ACTIVE proponents of violent Jihad, and a dialogue with the so-called MODERATES to adjust the Muslim advocacy to fit within the LAW!!

The partial explanation that Jihad is a personal struggle could be used as the FULL definition to replace the violent acts against others which is used against all other civilisations.

Obviously I have no idea of how to accomplish this without cooperation of leaders in the Muslim community!!!

Without their cooperation we are left with the necessity of destroying Islam in DETAIL!!! Of course, the west showing a determination to do just that would go a long way to impressing the UMMA with a deire to cooperate with us!!!

The current appeasers are counterproductive in this respect, as usual!!

The Merry Widow said...

Kuhnkat- Ooooh! That would get the bureaucRATs shaking in their Manolo Blahloks! Unfortunately, the good old USofA has been going down the same slippery slope as Greece and Rome! They have become "feminized", yuck, and lost much of the masculine ability to call it what it is and deal with it1 Now, we want people to "like" us and cannot stand the thought of doing something someone else might disapprove of! Femininity is a wonderful compliment to masculinity, but is a terrible "leader"! I feel like pulling my hair out at the men NOT STANDING UP AND DOING THEIR DUTY! I get very frustrated!

tmw

Freedomnow said...

TMW is putting potential suitors on notice that she likes real men.

I’m with you on the femininity thing. Tomboys are cool for playing a game of catch, but romance loses its touch when a woman needs to spit out her chewin’ tobaccie before smoochin’.

Kuhnkat,

You named the Wahhabis and they are the biggest problem (although Iran’s radical Shi’a fundamentalism is up there as well). All money coming from the Wahhabis should be cut off until they reform. That will probably mean that they would be permanently cut off.

It is unfortunate that there Americans who seek political gain by defending Islamists, while condemning any effort by the US to defend itself from terrorists. They are really shooting themselves in the foot because they are ruining any chance to get a date with TMW…

nanc said...

i already introduced them, fern - if anything comes of it i get the credit!

perhaps they could meet up here at nanchouse for thanksgiving?

The Merry Widow said...

Uh, guys, you don't even know what I look like! I may be sooooooo unattractive that I would turn Kuhnkat's stomach! Leave the poor man alone!
Phoenixfire and my daughter don't want to move back to Californiastan anyway!

tmw

Freedomnow said...

Hey dont knock Nanc's matchmaking abilities.

She got me a 4'5" 180 pound mail-order bride from India. I've never been happier.

I get 6 course meals with dessert, she cleans up after me and walks in my shadow.

If I can get her to stop braiding her armpit hair I think will start letting her wear tops with spaghetti straps.

kuhnkat said...

Uhhhh, Freedomnow,

If she is 4'5" and 180 pounds, I am not sure she would fit in your shadow! Make sure she has sunscreen!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Freedomnow said...

Hey thats my woman you are talkin' about!!!

At least we save money on sunscreen because she only needs it on her sides.

I'm telling you everything about this girl is dynamite.

When we drink in the 7/11 parking lot she pulls out her dentures to open bottles with them. She is the perfect woman.

kuhnkat said...

You say she is dynamite?? She blows your brains out HUH???

Hey, leave those armpit braids alone. Those show she is just as cultured as the Frenchies. Besides, the braids can be used as the straps!!!

She isn't FRENCH is she???

The Merry Widow said...

Nanc- This is all your fault! Fern, she most likely braids YOUR armpit hair! She could probably braid Kuhnkat's NOSE hair!
I'm NOT saying G*D bless this mess!

tmw

GUYK said...

I agree with your logic. But does the Islamic mind agree with it? We who try to use the logic of western civilization believe that there is always a compromise. The history of Islam and the orient indicates that any attempt to compromise is seen as weakness to be exploited.

The western world is at war with ISlam whether we will admit it or not. Where are the moderate Muslems? There are a few who will step up and speak out but very few. When I see mass demontrations in favor of the right for Israel to exist..when I see the leaders of Saudi Arabia and Syria and Iran step out and declare that every person has the right to worship as they please..when I see Muslems in the USA and Europe in mass demostrations condeming terrorist..then I will believe that western civilization is not at war with Islam.

The Christian religion did not really lose its ferver to convert by the sword until the event of the USA and a guaranteed right to worship or not to worship as one please. And even today there are many on the Christian right who would force their religion on us. The fact is that Islam, and for that matter the Christian religion, is not compatable with personal freedom as we in the USA understand personal freedom.

Killing all the Muslems on earth is not an option. But containing them just as the Europeans did five hundred years ago is an option. Forget about trying to appease them..just contain them.

This means that we should severely restrict Islam immigration to this country...otherwise we will go via the route of Europe and have the same problems as Europe. We should take the threats of "DEATH TO THE USA" seriously and when it is used in this country lock up the shouters until such time they can be deported.

I reckon I could write a thesis..but I just ain't up to it and this has turned into a book as it is. My apolgies..I will rant on my own site.

kuhnkat said...

guyk,

You will have to write a thesis on what you consider FORCE.

Your comment about some Christians wanting to FORCE their religion on us piqued my interest obviously.

Is this the same FORCE that LEFTARDS are using to remove Christianity from the public space??

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Always On Watch said...

TMW,
I just realized who Phoenix Fire is. He posted a comment at my site, but my addled brain didn't make the connection. Must be my low estrogen.

FN,
I wish that I were as optimistic as you are about reforming Islam. You might want to take a look at THIS ESSAY. Other essays by the same author are also available at THIS SITE.

THIS SITE makes the point that Islam has already undergone a reformation, and not for the better. Jason's "Does Moderate Islam Exist?" is worth exploring. Jason writes from the secularist's viewpoint.

Are all Muslims violent? Of course not! But are they practicing "the real Islam"? I don't think so.

kuhnkat said...

AOW,

REAL Islam allows a space for non-combatants to contribute to the Jihad through monetary means.

They don't get automatic entrance to Heaven for self and family, but, they also don't get explicitly attacked by the violent ones either.

As in so many other FEATURES of Islam I wonder if this was created by the rich guys contributing to the Imams (who also typically don't FIGHT) to help spread the faith. ;>)

Freedomnow said...

The Merry Widow is right, the comments went way off topic and that is going to set me back a bit because under the Bylaws that Kuhnkat imposed upon this blog I am obligated to buy another round of drinks for everyone. Drink up and be Merry.

AOW & Guy,

It is not just optimism that I am espousing, its common sense. When formulating a political or military strategy we have to separate emotion from the decision process. This will gives us the best chance of success.

It is difficult to ascertain what portion of the world’s Muslim population considers itself to be engaged in a religious war. Technically these wars may very well mean that we really are at war with Islam.

However, what benefit would we gain from labeling it as such? What benefit would our enemies gain?

Our enemies desperately want a worldwide Caliph. The means to achieve that is through religious war. We can still wage the same military and political strategy whether or not we defined these conflicts as a war against Islam or not, let me put it another way, as Al Qaeda wants this war to be defined or not.

Remember that we have Muslim allies like the Kurds and Kuwaitis. Most importantly, we have helped to install the governments of Iraq and Afghanistan. A publicly declared war against Islam would completely lose their support and everything we have worked for in those countries would be lost.

Terrorists are trying to destroy the will of the people of Afghanistan and Iraq to rule themselves democratically. Their terrorist attacks are the means that they use to demoralize those people. Their propaganda capitalizes on the bloodshed to reinforce the “hopelessness” of defending themselves against terrorism.

We need a positive message to counter them. Terrorism thrives on fear.

This is my point:

Leftists also have a message of fear. Why add to quagmire of fear that Islamists and Leftists are trying to create?

Fear is their message if we are to be effective our message must be the reverse.

GUYK said...

I see your point and mostly agree. We are not against war against all Islam all though it does seem that way.

But what we can do is call the ones we are at war with Islamic Facists and let the rest of Islam know that they are either with us or against us in the fight. Our allies such as Kuwait is with us and has helped in the fight. But they are in a minority.

It is just not the USA, though, that is in this fight. India for example is having problems..and has had problems with the Islamic minority..the reason for Packistan, remember?

I suppose the point that I am trying to get across that everywhere there is a substantal minority population of Muslems there are problems. Islam demands religious freedom but will not tolerate any other religious freedom..even in places like Kuwait that is supposed top be an ally.

Containment appears to me to be the only solution. As I said, restrict immigration of Muslems and do not cater to their demands, ie drivers licesnse without pictures because it violates their religion..

If in fact the Islamic countries want to be allies..especially economic allies..then that is all well and good. But there is no sense gving up our freedom to cater to them ..

GUYK said...

Oh, and by the way. I am trying to be nice here..I usually don't use the term Islamic Facist..I prefer raghead but then nobode has ever accused me of being polictically correct. I take pride in that fact.

nanc said...

oh sure - blame it on the one who's been off fighting trojan horses for a month solid! fcol! i've barely had time to go off topic - but this once:

guess what we had for supper my vegan friend?

alligator and fresh oysters! yeah - alligator tastes just like crocodile - i knew it all the time.

The Merry Widow said...

I've had fried gator tail before, it was some of the whitest meat I've ever seen. Quite tasty, good with ranch or honey mustard!
Good morning, G*D bless and Maranatha!

tmw

Russet Shadows said...

America was built on the premise that federal laws were truly unnecessary, for the people would be self-controlled, and that local laws (appliciable to local populations and circumstances) would hold sway. As for Christianity not being compatible with our understanding of freedom, I don't think you'd find anything more common to the founding fathers than that. And as for freedom, don't forget that there were state churches up until right around the War Between the States, and that every state had censor board until 1968. Are those compatible with our ideas of freedom? Americans in those times thought so. What about fines for public blasphemy? Americans had no problems with those laws. What we're really seeing is not the threat of evangelical Christianity informing or being part of the laws. What we're seeing is a destruction in the bonds that unite Americans as one, or at least a supermajority of Americans. That's a dangerous thing, because a country that does not have many bonds among its citizens becomes a set of warring, conflicting factions soon enough. Or don't you think that we're already there? The only question left is WHEN will Americans once again take up arms against Americans?

The Merry Widow said...

Balkinization! Thy name is leftista! At that point RS, we will no longer be "Americans", at least as originally conceived by the Founding Fathers! If you can't conquer it, rot the heart and watch it fall. "Great will be the destruction thereof..."

tmw

Freedomnow said...

Guy,

The containment policy you suggest can still be implemented without declaring war on Islam (despite the fact that some Muslims have already declared war and have given us the choice to capitulate or fight back). As long as the stated goal of such a policy is to defend Western civilization until Islam is reformed, then a rational argument can be made for such efforts so we can generate a wider range of support for them. We need a strong political will and a solid base of popular support in order to implement such measures.

The problem that everyone is saying is that:

Islam is basically waging a terrorist war against the world's major religions. We are taking measures against terrorism, but we are not addressing the source, the fact that the Islamic religion is a tool for these wars and many Islamic leaders are complacent in its execution.

I agree. Unless we challenge Islamic leaders to reform their religion these wars will continue unabated. Some think that Islam cannot be reformed. Well, a similar situation existed on a much smaller scale hundreds of years ago and the Protestant religion was created from it.

Moderate Muslims and Liberals have to make a choice. Is every major religion in the world engaged in a coordinated campaign of aggression against Islam or not? At the moment many of them have decided that to one degree or another this is true. That is their decision to make; however, I suggest that this is a poor decision based on skewed propaganda that takes all facts out of context.

Freedomnow said...

I can relate to those who dislike the overzealousness of evangelistic Christians, but the freedom of speech and religion protects such activities. Christians do not make war on non-believers and no one should feel threatened by some else's beliefs.

If you dont believe what they are pushing then it doesnt matter whatever they say - if you are truly secure in your own beliefs.

In recent history there is more evidence of the persecution of Christians than there is that the world governments have problems separating church and state. (outside of the Islamic world, I am not saying that Christians are massively persecuted, I am saying that there is more evidence of the reverse.)

Anyone that wishes to argue that Christian terrorism is a problem or that our country is a theocracy would be more than welcome to comment on the subject here. Even though I am an atheist I have strong feelings on the subject and I think people who make that argument are misguided propagandists. So I enjoy throwing darts at their balloons.

The Merry Widow said...

Fern- I can actually agree, some Christians just don't know how to be courteous of another person's space! My late used to say that new Christians should be locked in a closet for 6 months, they can be a real turn off to people! Their families REALLY suffer! I prefer breif comments or leading questions, that way you can judge another person's openness. Just being loving, consistantly, can be a draw. I find most who are "in your face" are more legalistic, which we aren't called to be! But you are so right, in that you are very unlikely to be in physical danger from a Christian, unless you're trying to get away from one and trip over something! Now if I believe you're going over a cliff...I will be in your face!
There was a very hideous book out, oh about 20-30 years ago, by a feminist called "The Handmaiden's Tale" that was "supposed" to be about how horrible a "Christian Theocracy" would be in the US! Unfortunately, if she had used an islamic theocracy, she would have been on the money! Totalitarianism is the bane of human existence, no matter what stripe! G*D created nations to prevent a whole world dictatorship! No matter how "noble" sounding it is, utopian fantasies are manmade and flawed, and they are all about Power and Control! "I don't have it, I want it, so I will take it!" Lots of I's in it, the soul of selfishness.
Good morning, G*D bless and Maranatha!

tmw

Freedomnow said...

The teachings of Christ are fantastic and I dont mind discussing it.

Some people cant handle the subject and get over-defensive. Then some get off on the theocracy tangent and sound crazier than a cult member holding tickets for flight 666 to Alpha Centauri.

I think that they are insecure about their own beliefs or lack of...

The Merry Widow said...

Fern- Bwahahahahaha! How much are the tickets?
Seriously, I give my take on it. If you want me to tone down, say the word and I'll oblige. It is your blog and I'm only a guest.

tmw

Freedomnow said...

...And what a considerate guest you are!!!

I hope that I am tolerant enough to judge a person by her intentions, not her beliefs.

cheers

Cookie..... said...

This has probly been one a the most well written, interestin set of post(s) and comments I've ever read on-line....excellent debate!

Although...the 4'5", 180 lb batch of braided armpit hair with a bottle opener fer teeth was a bit much...I could see the possibility of braided pits as usefull handles under certain circumstances...err...off topic...

The term "War on Terror" does not put a face on the enemy...and for people to wake up to the fact this is indeed a very serious and deadly war...with very grave consequences possible in the near future (nuclear)...there needs to be a recognizable opponent. Who or what is Terror? The enemy needs to be named, identified and pictured...for what he/she/it is.

Do I have an answer that will satisfy all the parameters without offending the "friendlies"...NO. I wish I did. This is also probably why our Government has left it at "The War on Terror"....

Am I satisfied with that....NO. Lets try "The War on Minority, Left-Wing, American/Christian/Other Religion Hating, Suicidal, Fanatical, Exstremist Islamic-Fascists"...

Oh well...never did too well in Poli-Sci class anyways....

Well written post FN...with good points to ponder and discuss....

Freedomnow said...

Hi Cookie,

It’s good to have you back. I understand from the comment you left on Greg’s blog that someone close to you past away and you were absorbed with that. Sorry to hear about it. I wish you the best.

So thanks for the kind words, but don’t talk about my girl like that because I am the jealous type... ;)

Cookie..... said...

OK...we'll let yur girl go...but I'll bet at 180 she keeps ya warm in the winter...;-)

Freedomnow said...

ahhhhh... the joy of mailorder brides...

The Merry Widow said...

Fern- Now I can respond, I had a meeting to go to. But thank you for your kind words, I do try to be a good guest, no breaking of glasses or furniture, no strangling other guests without the host's permission, no pooping in the middle of the livingroom floor, unlike certain "others". You know, those little things that just ooze civilized behavior!
BTW- You still haven't told me where and how much for the tickets!
hehehe!

tmw
Just your friendly neighborhood wacked out psycho christian nutjob!

Russet Shadows said...

I honestly wonder if the moderate Muslim is just a PR creation with a few attention-hungry clerics playing the role as part of some elaborate chess game.

On the whole, I agree with the central thesis that Islam must reform. However, Islam has a much further distance to go than the Catholic church did (which eventually booted out its reformers rather than heed them). This makes it much more difficult for Islamic reformists. The Protestants' cry of "sola Scripturae" (Scripture alone) was how they made a differentiation between Catholicism and a more pure form of Christianity. Could Islam do the same?

I do not think it possible, for even the Koran itself lays bare the fundamental problem of Islam: Mohammed.
Muslims cannot at once hold him to the measure of a true Muslim and reform Islam, for Mohammed is a microcosm of all the ills of modern Islam -- slavery, misogyny, murder, warmongering, and deceit.

Greg said...

Freedomnow: I read your post. Excellent work once again! You claim that the solution is not Islam itself but rather the message that most Islamic institutions spread, poisoning our wells, like Ozzie Guillen is going to do to the Twinkies(any baseball fans here?) I agree 100%!

I especially like the ending "Our message must NOT be that we are waging war on Islam. It must be that Islam needs to reform."

Islam, I believe, (and I've felt the impact of fundamentalist Islam living in Israel) is not evil. It's the majority of modern imams telling their worshippers that Israel is the "little Devil" and America the "big one" that are trying to turn Islam from a religion like any other to one of hate and ignorance.

You point to the solution: to modernize Islam. I agree there, too!

nanc said...

well then, greg - first you'd have to do away with their handbook - the koran! then what religion would they become?

and why do you, a non-religious jew, have a menorrah as your avatar? just curious as the menorrah is an extremely religious symbol for judaism as well as christianity. the middle being the servant candle (messiah).

Freedomnow said...

Whether or not the Koran is hate-speech, my goal will still be the same either way.

Like the Old Testament, the Koran doesn’t have to be interpreted literally.

It is impractical to believe that Islam as a religion can be destroyed without severe repercussions that no sane person would willingly undertake.

Therefore, reformation is more logical. Wars spanning almost the length of the globe are being waged in Islam’s name.

Yet there is little talk of the need for reform in the Muslim community. This is an indication of a state of denial and the strength of intimidation that moderate Muslims feel from their fundamentalist peers.

War in the name of religion should horrify civilized people and yet there is a huge denial of the problem. It is in the best interests of the entire world that Islamic teaching comes under further scrutiny and pressure is made to modernize the religion.

The Merry Widow said...

It does horrify us, that is why we need to be decisive in our actions to avoid continued or renewed warfare in the future, ours and our decendents! Why do we need to fight the same persons over and over! You make the consequences drastic enough, the undesirable behavior will not be repeated! Unfortunately, each generation has to teach a new idiot to quit playing with fire!

tmw

Greg said...

nanc: Though I'm a secular Jew, I have the greatest respect for Judaism and have tried, at different points in my life,returning to tshuva. Anyhow, the symbol is that of the Betar or Brit Yosef Trumpeldor, the Revisionist Zionist organization once headed by Ze'ev Zhabotinsky, I would argue the most important of the early Zionists.

kuhnkat said...

greg,

nothing like perverting great ideas!!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Freedomnow said...

Well Greg you made the Aliyah and immigrated back to the land that your ancestors were kicked out of. For that you could be killed while sitting in a restaurant or on a bus just for the crime of being a Jew.

You obviously have a deep connection to your people. I hope that one day there will come a time when the Jews will no longer be the target of such wide-scale bigotry.

nanc said...

there will be that day, fern. but first there will be trials that will cause the hearts of men to fail them for what is coming.

as a student of old testament prophecy i can assure anybody here that what will be will be and all the woes we're seeing can be found in books written over 2400 years ago - and there has NOT been one lie found in them to date. these were the tests of true prophets - back then a "prophet" would be killed for telling a prophecy in the name of G-d.

here is a vast comparison between islam and christianity:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=51744

it does no jew good to make aliyah if he does not live by the law. he is but a tourist. there should be no pride taken in it.

greg is wishy-washy.

The Merry Widow said...

Nanc- As usual, you're right! and the time is coming quickly!
Good to see you back, haven't even had a power bump, yet! It's breezy and rainny, just like I said. It may get worse later, but not by much I'm thinking!

tmw
P.S. have you contacted Donal yet? Or get my addy from Warren, Donal is dealing with a broken wing!

Freedomnow said...

He can still be killed for it.

Luckily there have been some recent understated changes in the situation.

Since the death of Arafat and the building of the separation barrier, the Intifada has come almost to a complete halt. It was a total failure and it is ironic that the group that started it, Fatah, has lost a lot of influence as a result of it.

The press would never glorify any victory over terrorism, so no one really talks about it. In order to "imbed" with terrorists they have to submit to Islamist ideology first. In the Middle East terrorist groups intimidate the media to spread their propaganda. They either "offer" advice to "protect" the press, vandalize their offices, kidnap them or use other means of harassment.

kuhnkat said...

Freedomnow,

it will be interesting to see how the Fox reporter handles the situation. He was FORCED to convert at gunpoint. Of course, according to the Quran this is still a valid conversion. According to Shariia law that the vermin use that converted him, he is now required to obey Shariaa. Many things, like deconverting carry a death penalty.

Will he be used to carry stories against Islam, which could be considered blasphemy, now??

Let's keep an eye on this one!!

beakerkin said...

Freedom Now

You seem to be leaving out a key factor. The Marxist far left is aiding and abetting the enemy by rationalizing abhorent behavior.


I agree with Nanc. One can not be all things to all people. In the case of the far left a self respecting member of Western Civ kicks tail first and doesn't waste time on feelings.

nanc said...

why? does he look jewish or something?

terrorist acts committed on israeli soil were not done after taking a poll to see who was jewish, christian, arab or otherwise.

islamic terrorists do not care who they kill in the name of allah - hell, they're willing to kill themselves for the cause.

there is a grand chasm of difference between my laying my life down for you and my killing you for the glory of allah.

Freedomnow said...

My dear Nanc, I would never ask you to give your life for me.

Its only worth $1.99 on sale and select locations take coupons with up to 10% off that.

Freedomnow said...

Beak, we can never leave out your hated Commies, you will never let anyone forget them.

Unfortunately, you are right. Communists use Islamist terrorism to further their agenda.

The KGB & the intelligence services of Eastern Europe were instrumental in the rise of terrorism in the 70s. So there is a direct link, but most people would rather talk about Western Imperialism.

Groups like ANSWER and Code Pink will support anything that is anti-American. Their hollow denunciations of terrorism are just empty words that are not followed by any action.

Freedomnow said...

Hey Kuhnkat you gave me a great idea. Why don’t we kidnap every reporter and make them convert to Christianity?

Hmmm....well...I guess that won’t work because Christianity doesn’t have a fundamentalism equal to the Jihadist philosophy.

kuhnkat said...

Freedomnow,

not to mention that Islam is a much bigger Colonial or Imperial power the the US or Israel ever DREAMED of being!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

kuhnkat said...

Freedomnow,

we could threaten to hold prayer meetings for their souls wherever they are 24/7 if they don't comply!!!

Some of them would consider that MUCH worse than being forcibly converted to Islam!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

nanc said...

well, my dearest schmoogie-woogie fern, you are priceless to me!

Freedomnow said...

Does that mean they are giving my life away on aisle 3?

If so, could you pick up some chips for me while you are there?

Freedomnow said...

Kuhnkat,

You evil schemer! Thats almost as bad as flushing Korans down the toilet (at least its more believable).

We could also force reporters to fund and manage building projects that would disply the sign of the cross on public land.

Any delusions of a theocracy that they may harbor will be flushed down the toilet along with the infamous Guantanamo Korans.

beakerkin said...

Freedom Now

How about sending the staff of CNN of Mad Zionist University for some basic education.

Staff of Maz Zionist U

1 Jeff Bargholz covers the history of the ME.

2 Felis Covers what Koran actually says

3 Mr Beamish teaches Beamishnomics and advanced Beamishometry.

4 Jason Papas Liberterianism 101

5 Beakerkin Kicking Commie behind
and dismantling the far left.

Now that would be a genuine education.

nanc said...

may i teach the course on etiquette?

kuhnkat said...

freedomnow said:

"As the 2nd largest religion with 1.5 billion people and as the fastest growing of the larger religions..."

Actually I have read articles that claimed Christianity was the fastest growing. They definitely get more converts from Islam than the reverse!!

I'll have to keep an eye out for more info on that. You just can't take Muslim organisations word for ANYTHING!!!

This article:

http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9704/14/egypt.islam/

claims Islam is the fastest growing in the US but then quotes number of Mosques and not member information.

http://www.cbn.com/spirituallife/ChurchAndMinistry/Evangelism/Mormons_Are_Fastest_Growing_Religion.aspx

Says Mormons are fastest growing US religion.

http://www.druidry.org/obod/news/growth_paganism.html

Just to bury the idea that fastest growing means anything!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA

kuhnkat said...

Freedomnow,

here is a more serious comparison of religious growth:

http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-myths-fastest-growing.htm

Mr. Beamish the Instablepundit said...

Beamishometry?

nanc said...

uh-huh.

The Merry Widow said...

And what am I? Chopped liver? Again? OY! Hey Beaker, what should I teach? Or run the clinic?

tmw

nanc said...

perhaps being chopped liver could put you in charge of the cafeteria?

Freedomnow said...

The Culinary Arts is the most prestigious field of study, especially around dinnertime.

Since its around that time I'd better grab a bite to eat. What food group are Kit Kats in?

The Merry Widow said...

Fern-KitKats contain chocolate, chocolate is made up of;cocoa beans(a vegetable), sugar(sugar cane and sugar beets are in the vegetable group), milk and milk derivatives(dairy), vanilla(a vegetable derived from orchids), wheat(a grain), therefor it can be either salad or soup, depending on the time of year and outside temperatures!
Nanc- Maybe I can break them of their effete dietary requirements and introduce them to my chicken and dumplings(spicier than the usual) homemade bisquits, soups, stews, you know, real food! Not sushi! That can be part of their deprogramming.
Good morning, G*D bless and Maranatha!

tmw

beakerkin said...

All right

Beamishometry is the calculations of blast zones and how to land conventional munitions effectively.

Nanc

You could teach the course on etiquitte at MZ university.

TMW

You would have the honor of teaching the counter part to Felis's course "What the New Testament actually Says"

nanc said...

kitkats are my favorite dessert! snickers my second favorite - you know, for the legumes...

Freedomnow said...

oh, they can be dessert too?

I'm encouraged that Mr. B is focusing on conventional explosives, but I fear that wont last very long.

nanc said...

are you telling me i may eat these commodities as a meal?

yippppaaaaaaay!

Cookie..... said...

Ah...did somebody mention "Culinary Arts"...now yur talkin my forte'....

BTW..."Kit-Kats" are in the food group...er...ah...Hey! Gimme a Break!

The Merry Widow said...

Beaker- Hehehehe! Yes, that ought to be an eye opener. "Yes, it really means what it says, you want to go back to the original Greek, Aramaic and Hebrew?" "Any questions?"
Cookie-KitKats are obviously a compound of fruit and veggies, grains and dairy, you can catch several food groups with them! Isn't that special?

tmw

nanc said...

oh i can see it now:

tmw & cookie's favorite:

kitkatkassarole! with beans and fatwaback! yeehaw!

Freedomnow said...

I see what you guys are doing. You are ridiculing my taste in cuisine.

Well, I want you to know that I have high-brow tastes just like you guys. When I have wine from a box I always use a wine glass.

You may mock my diet, but I eat fritos because it has corn in it. Is that healthy enough for you?

The Merry Widow said...

Fern-One serving of grain, are you balancing it with salsa, guacamole, sour cream, cheese, refried beans, must balance our diets! Just don't puncture the bag inside, red wine stains are beastly to get out!

tmw

nanc said...

the bags, blown up, and decorated with colored sharpees make a nice emergency pillow when you get lost in the wilderness...just a hunch...

Freedomnow said...

What in the world have these comments digressed to? The topic of this post was about how to address Islam's role in the current religious wars across the globe.

Instead we are wallowing in the quagmire of the Feeding Habits of American Bloggers.

This is not Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom. This is a serious blog for intellectual discussions about current events.

I must apologize for leading you all into my personal hell of junk food addiction. I promise to seek professional help as soon as I finish this bag of Doritos Ranchero Flavored chips (oh I love these new flavors, yum).

kuhnkat said...

Another round of drinks with our junk food Freedomnow!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAAAHHAAH

The Merry Widow said...

Fern-My son loves the Doritos Habanero ones! Really, you need to talk to that blog host, he's falling down on the job, or is it the greasy fingers? Or the boxed wine? What do you expect from this bunch, led and abetted by Beaker and Beamish! You've fallen amongst evil companions, now hush up and get more guacamole!

tmw

nanc said...

i love the tabasco cheezits - especially if they're kept in the freezer before eating the entire box...

The Merry Widow said...

Nanc's got a puppy! Or is it, a puppy's got a Nanc? Does he go with tabasco Cheezits? Or would he do better with the Quesa ones?

tmw

nanc said...

he will go well on a bun with some mustard if he doesn't stop rearranging shoes, socks, throw rugs and whatever else a 14 ounce puppy can drag around!

The Merry Widow said...

Sound's like you've met your match! And, I bet you're laughing inside!
He probably would be tasty as a Philadelphia CheesePuppy with the peppers, onions and fresh mushers! A little cheese melted over the top, sound good?
Good morning, G*D bless and Maranatha!


tmw

nanc said...

fern?

have you seen this:

http://orangeducks.blogspot.com/

Freedomnow said...

Nanc you havent been scanning my links. I've had that one up for a while.

Congrats on the new puppy. They are a major pain, but when they grow up many people miss "that cute little puppy". It may not seem like it now, but give it some time.

nanc said...

i told you awhile back that i don't link from here because it opens another window - too many drafts!

beakerkin said...

I am still a devotee of KFC ask MZ or Kahane Loyalist. The only way I can be provoked to violence is if someone messes with my butter milk biscuts.

nanc said...

i wouldn't touch that with some sausage gravy, beak!

Freedomnow said...

Greg,

To continue our conversation from the James Berger post - I dont agree with MZs politics, but I consider him to be a friend.

He is angry at how anti-semitism has justified years of violence. I hope that the hatefulness in his heart will heal one day.

From time to time I have Communists like John Brown visit my blog, but I dont ban them. If he or anyone else makes crude sexual, racist or violent insults then I just delete the comment.

In light of this I dont see why I would ban my friends. We disagree all the time. I am a very tolerant person (although I love to get in heated discussions occasionally, thats the NYr in me).

...I dont see why you should change your avatar. It does give the impression that you are religious, but you are Jewish and you do have a connection with your people. Its up to you.

...There were no racist remarks from Beak or MZ in your comments, at least I dont remember any. Maybe I missed something.

Freedomnow said...

Oh just to clarify something. The "Fascists Sympathizers Beware" slogan was taken down this Saturday because I didnt want anyone visiting this site from a link at 2,996 to feel unwelcome when visiting James Berger's memorial.

I also felt that it was appropriate because I want this blog to be more open for discussion.

nanc said...

that would be all fine and dandy if greg were someone you could even discuss the time of day with.

nanc said...

yeah, but have you updated your profile?

Freedomnow said...

Its not listed in my profile, young lady...

nanc said...

i'll come back to this post in a month or so to see if the person in question makes any slanderous comments to me...maybe he just has delayed reaction syndrome - drs.

beakerkin said...

Freedom

For the most part I ignore Greg. He is not worthy of my time and has nothing worthwhile to read. I have zero interest and do not read his posts here.

His behavior towards Nanc is typical of the child like behavior and I want no part of it. Rather then move ahead Greg needs the attention and starts an altercation with Nanc and me in an inappropriate venue.

Let him go his way and I will go mine. I will never accept him as an equal, nor do I want anything to do with him. He isn't even interesting or intelligent enough to make a decent enemy.

All I have to say to Greg is

Vaya Con Dios Puto.

Greg said...

Freedomnow: beaker here insults and swears at you(maybe not in English, but what the heck). He has dreams and aspirations of becomming smarter and while knowing little, he doesn't consider me to be on an equal footing with him. What he does know(or thinks he knows) is that Communists are guilty of all the world's problems. He's stuck in the Cold War and man...he just can't get out. If anything I feel bad for him. I can't say that I feel hurt by his comments becuase they're sooooo ignorant.

As for nanc, she's simply a looser. She makes provocative comments and tries to get an edge on those who don't agree with her by insulting them. This group of MZ, beak, nanc, and others is a detrument to the Jewish people. They're extremists whom no one except for those exactly like them will deal with.

You're an acception. You try to deal with them whilst they make racist, bigotted remarks to others. Take Saba for example. She did nothing to hurt beak. He went out of the way to insult her personally. I don't get it. You say you see these people as "friends". They may be friends to you but they're enemies to most of civilized society.

beakerkin said...

Greg

Prominent on display is Greg's immaturity and stooooopidity. Lets start off with the dullard that points fingers at my splling. Most of what you see are typos, my word ussage is generally accurate.

Acception is not a word. The word the dullard Greg was trying to use was exception. I do not go around
making these corrections, but I do not lecture others about spelling or grammar.

Freedom Now is Puerto Rican and as such is entirely familiar with the phrase I used and its context. Moreover, the Spanish phrase was clearly adressed to you. Obviously,
reading comprehension is not one of Greg's strengths. What part of the phrase " All I have to say to Greg is", eludes the special ed refugee? If he wants to read where
I dismember him read my post Jooo without a clue.

For those of us with IQ's below freezing, vaya con dios is a traditional goodbye in Spanish. The meaning of the phrase is go with God. The word puto is the masculine form of the the worlds oldest profession. In Spanish O or A differentiate masculine or feminine. A Jew who readily associates with anti-semitic Communist types is a puto. In Greg's case chronic stupidity may provide some defense.

Where do we begin, I save emails and can provide proof. Greg asked me to appologize to Saba. Was she personally insulted by me, absolutely not. Greg's complaint was that my contention there is no Palestinian ethnicity made her feel like a nonperson was the issue. Unfortunately, when one is arguing facts there are going to be facts people do not like. Grown adults understand this, but Greg is a child.

Greg sent me an E-mail asking for an apology to Saba. My response was to tell Greg to get lost. I was clear Greg is not my enemy, but I want any links severed and no contact. I closed my email with the phrase " close the door as you leave". Apparently, I never saw Gregs childish response because I do not waste my time reading his blog. Greg alludes to the email bans me and copies my phrase close the door behind you. The dullard is not even able to come up with original phrases.

I challenge anyone to find a point in any of Greg's posts. There are no points just the emotional whines of a child. Greg has also shown himself to be decietful and emotionally unstable.

Any comments of his about me being
a political extreemist are amuzing comming from a political superball.
Yesterday he was a Kahanist, now he is a moderate, tommorow he is an albino vegeterian. Any simple reading of my blog clearly indicates I am well within the political mainstream. I do want to crackdown on Communists who violate US law. On other issues I am far more liberal than Greg himself, but I don't call myself a "right winger" like Greg. Nor do I consort with Commies. The Duck is at best a house troll on my blog. I do not hate the guy in any description.

I know Nanc, Nanc is a friend of mine. In no description is Nanc a looooser, despite the fact she likes golf. Nanc is also one of Freedom Now's closest friends. Unlike my comments about Saba you have clearly insulted Nanc and the host.

MZ is laughing at your obsession and your child like posts. Even he would be ammused by your description of me as an extreemist.
This shows how divorced from reality you really are.

Lstly Greg what is the Israeli equivalent of US section 8. No help from the Americans let the dullard figure this out on his own.

Respect your host, keep your comments on topic and do not insult other posters. Anything you wish to say to Nanc, MZ or myself can be done on your blog. If you had courage I would advise you to go to the blogs of the people you object to, but like Gertie you are spineless.

Vaya con dios puto.

Greg said...

I will reiterate what I said in my comment on Warren's and Nanc's blog. Having been sick for a while and not having blogged I saw the comments she made about me and got mad. I overreacted. My apologies to Nanc. Since then, I've change my aviatar(or whatever it is) and have deleted the post where I ranted about her. I think that everyone who's human makes mistakes and I'm only human. So once again, Nanc: I apologize. Take it as you will.

Freedomnow said...

Thank you for deleting that post. Nanc is my best Internet buddy and she never resorts to any crude language.

I admit that I am amused by Beak's obsession with Communism. While it is true than Communism is weaker than it has been for almost 100 years, they have adapted.

They now seek to subvert Democracy from within, often flavoring their propaganda with slogans calling for Democracy.

So we have watered-down Commies like Chavez and Morales in South America. I see Beak's point, but I think he lets their inflammatory propaganda provoke him too much. They want to piss him off.

The feud between you, Beak and MZ has gotten out of hand. MZ doesnt pay much attention to it, but you and Beak are rabid.

Despite the fact that MZ called for the killing of Palestinian civilians, he has came out of this mess looking the most mature (that is just an objective viewpoint of this feud).

If you wish to counter his message there are more effective ways of doing that.

nanc said...

please don't tell me you're trying to repair my now, less-than tarnished reputation - dear Lord what is everybody trying to do - make me look like a froofy angel or something? heaven forbid.

i will accept greg's apology.

you are right, fern - some of us are overly zealous with exposing our feelings on certain subjects, but all in all - who could or would have put this diverse bunch together? still amazed. of course, i believe in divine appointments - oops - i've got one now with mr. sandman! old lady nap time - yeeeehaw - it's good being nanc...snore...

Greg said...

nanc: thanks. It's nice to know that in this messed-up world there people who will forgive mistakes that have been made.

Freedomnow said...

You crazy kids.